Goshen College sets anthem policy

Author Message
 Posted 3/12/2010 1:52:30 AM
Supreme Being

Supreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme Being

Group: Administrators
Last Login: 2 days ago @ 5:51:39 AM
Posts: 16,157, Visits: 391
3/12/2010 12:00:00 AM

Let's discuss 'Goshen College sets anthem policy'.

Goshen College will play an instrumental version of the national anthem for the first time March 23, and it will be accompanied by a statement of the college's core values and the Peace Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi. In a press release on its Web site Wednesday, the college outlined plans to implement the new practice.

-from
the Truth

Post #109287
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 3/12/2010 1:55:14 AM
Forum Master Guru

Forum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 3/20/2013 4:12:32 AM
Posts: 2,008, Visits: 9,846
Soldiers are sent to foreign lands where they fight bravely and honorably in defense of the freedoms we enjoy as Americans. If they weren’t quite heroes on the day they signed up they certainly are by the day of their deployment and even more so after they’ve completed their duty. That is the picture painted by nearly all opinion makers in this country, including our news media, schools, churches and public officials. Americans love to honor their warriors, all of them, just as we prefer to believe that all our wars are just. That’s my problem with the national anthem, sometimes the honor is undeserved just as sometimes the war is unjustified.


______________________________________________
"I agree completley with your assessment....The problem is your assessment is wrong and mistaken."
Post #109288
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 3/12/2010 2:02:36 AM
Supreme Being

Supreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme Being

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 4/17/2011 5:28:35 PM
Posts: 3,934, Visits: 516
Typanda,

Any war in particular strike you as unjust?

Post #109289
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 3/12/2010 2:20:18 AM
Forum Master Guru

Forum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 3/20/2013 4:12:32 AM
Posts: 2,008, Visits: 9,846
miller4 (3/12/2010)
Typanda,

Any war in particular strike you as unjust?


Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, et. al.



______________________________________________
"I agree completley with your assessment....The problem is your assessment is wrong and mistaken."
Post #109292
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 3/12/2010 3:56:25 AM
Forum Newbie

Forum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum NewbieForum Newbie

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 3/12/2010 3:37:35 AM
Posts: 1, Visits: 0
I applaud Goshen College's decision to play the national anthem-but I'm disappointed for the reason.  The President stated they are going to play the anthem as "act of hospitality".  So the anthem isn't being played as a sign of respect for the country or the freedoms we have (including religion), but simply a gesture of hospitality?  I understand the need for peace, the desire to walk the proper journey, but we are allowed to do this openly because of our country...our founding fathers' vision for freedom.  I believe respect is given to our country for the freedoms we have.  Others in this world try to walk the path of Jesus, but do so in darkness and opression from an unjust and terrible government.  Our country does not do this, but allows forums like this to exist.  Be against violence and wars - but respect our country with playing the anthem.  Without the words? Sure. If we don't like "bombs bursting in air"...then so be it.  But just to play it to be "hospitible" is myopic. The president of Goshen isn't seeing the forest because of the trees. Goshen College wouldn't exist in many other countries--but it flourishes in the United States-It should be played in honor and respect-not to just make a guest feel at home.
Post #109299
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 3/12/2010 4:13:20 AM
Supreme Being

Supreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme Being

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 4/17/2011 5:28:35 PM
Posts: 3,934, Visits: 516
So the unmitigated murder of many Iraqi's at the hand of Sadaam Hussein, via the use of gassing, torture, and many other nameless methods was not a justifiable reason for going into Iraq? Ironic isn't it that many of those who oppose Iraq support sending troops to the Sudan for exactly this reason.  The invasion of a country who had virtually no military isn't justifiable?  What on earth justifies military action in your world? 

I know we should have left Afghanistan alone, after all, that is where the Taliban trained the 9/11 terrorists, or maybe you just don't care. 

Seriously, there are many reasons to not like Vietnam and I can name a few (I was pretty young at the time) but do you deny that after the US withdrawl millions of innocent citizens were killed at the hands of the new communist regime in both Vietnam and Cambodia?

Historically, the US has been the one lone, voice of Freedom (I say historically because with this president it's still up in the air) warts and all.  I do not believe that we are a perfect nation by any means, but we are a pretty good example, so either we are for freedom or against freedom.  Not much middle ground there IMO.

None of this has anything to do with GC decision regarding the Anthem anyway.  In all honesty, the GC decision has everything to do with an institution so overrun with liberal ideology during the 80's and early 90's (I was a student at this tiime) as to be so out of touch with it's constituency that even many of the GC professor's kids went else where for a college education.  There was an arrogance among many of the professor's at that time that they were superior to any one else around them.  The GC decison that President Jim Brennamen has made is a curageous decision to change the culture at GC and move that culture to amore main stream, Mennonite perspective.  In fact until this decision, GC was the only Mennonite institution that did NOT play the Anthem (so I was told by a staff member just yeaterday).

Post #109303
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 3/12/2010 6:30:08 AM
Supreme Being

Supreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme Being

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 4/17/2011 5:28:35 PM
Posts: 3,934, Visits: 516
Southbend,

If hospitality were the ONLY reason for playing the Anthem then I too would be disappointed, but the fact is, it isn't.  In fact in the "The Bulliten" (the GC alumni magazine) in the current edition President Brennamen outlines for reasons for the Anthem.  I am quoting:

1) We believe that playing the anthem offers a welcoming gesture to many visiting our athletic events, rather than an immediate barrier to further opportunities for getting to know one another.

2)  We believe playing the national anthem is one way that is commonly understood to express an allegiance to the nation o one's citizenship.  We have shown that in the past in a variety of other ways, such as flying a flag on campus, praying for ALL (emphasis mine) men and women serving our country, welcoming military veterns as students and employees, annually celebrating the US Constitution, and encouraging voting.

3)  We believe playing the anthem in no way displaces an higher allegiances, including to the expansive understanding of Jesus-the ultimate peacemaker-loving all people of the world.

4) We believe playing the anthem opens up new possibilities for members of the Goshen Collegecommunity to publicly offer prophetic critique-ifneedbe-as citizens in the loyal opposition on issues of deepest moral conviction, such as war, racism, and Human rights abuses.

The Truth got it partly right, but only partly.

Post #109327
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 3/12/2010 7:44:21 AM
Forum Master Guru

Forum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master GuruForum Master Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 3/20/2013 4:12:32 AM
Posts: 2,008, Visits: 9,846
"We are committed to building a world where human rights are respected and protected by the rule of law.

“Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right. The Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment, ratified by the United States and more than 130 other countries since 1984, forbids governments from deliberately inflicting severe physical or mental pain or suffering on those within their custody or control.” Human Rights Watch? Amnesty International? Maybe the Red Cross? Actually, no, that was President George W. Bush commemorating the United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture, June 26, 2003. Well said, Mr. President. So well said, in fact, that no one can honestly suggest that he ever really believed that the notorious Office of Legal Counsel memos he clung to actually provided real legal cover for himself and the others in his administration who approved and authorized torture.

"War crimes will be prosecuted. War criminals will be punished. And it will be no defense to say, 'I was just following orders.' "----Bush again, warning Iraqi soldiers just before the U.S. invasion.

I believe that our nation has no choice but to maintain a military and be prepared to defend itself in war. What disturbs me is the extent to which, not just in Vietnam but also in more recent wars, American opinion makers and the public so willingly ignore or excuse crimes when they are committed by our side. I’m not just talking about soldiers in the field but also those elected officials who take us into illegal and/or unnecessary wars and who set policy permitting the inhumane treatment of prisoners, including torture. Too many Americans act like national and international laws covering armed conflict are fine when applied to other nations but that those same laws add to the difficulty we have protecting ourselves so we can and should ignore them.

For me, patriotism, at least the only proper patriotism, means being proud of what one’s country has and does that rightfully should make us proud. It does not mean blindly cheering on one’s country when the country is behaving badly.



______________________________________________
"I agree completley with your assessment....The problem is your assessment is wrong and mistaken."
Post #109343
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 3/12/2010 8:03:23 AM
Supreme Being

Supreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme BeingSupreme Being

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 4/17/2011 5:28:35 PM
Posts: 3,934, Visits: 516
I believe that our nation has no choice but to maintain a military and be prepared to defend itself in war. What disturbs me is the extent to which, not just in Vietnam but also in more recent wars, American opinion makers and the public so willingly ignore or excuse crimes when they are committed by our side. I’m not just talking about soldiers in the field but also those elected officials who take us into illegal and/or unnecessary wars and who set policy permitting the inhumane treatment of prisoners, including torture. Too many Americans act like national and international laws covering armed conflict are fine when applied to other nations but that those same laws add to the difficulty we have protecting ourselves so we can and should ignore them.

For me, patriotism, at least the only proper patriotism, means being proud of what one’s country has and does that rightfully should make us proud. It does not mean blindly cheering on one’s country when the country is behaving badly.
[/quote]

Typandia,

This might surprise you, and maybe others, but I support everything you've said.  However,  I do not see Iraq or Afghanistaan as unnecessary wars.  They were very necessary.  I don't support all of the tactics used by our military, but I believe that if the media is going to talk about the shame of Abhu Grahe (sp?) or waterboarding, then they also need to talk about the live beheadings that were taking place on Al Jazeera.  I do not support a media that goes snooping after whatever it is that we may be doing wrong while ignoring the wrongs of the opposition.

I happen to strongly support the intended goals of both Iraq and Afghanistan, but I do not support all of the methods used to gain that end.

In short, to borrow a line from "The West Wing"  "all wars are crimes against humanity."

Post #109350
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook
 Posted 3/12/2010 12:09:43 PM
Forum Guru

Forum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum GuruForum Guru

Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 1/11/2008 2:18:22 AM
Posts: 1,601, Visits: 56
So apparently millerTime, the unmitigated genocide in Darfur and other regions of Africa that took far more lives than Hussein did are A OK with you?
Post #109377
Add to Twitter Add to Facebook


Reading This Topic

Expand / Collapse