Fire crews spend nearly 9 hours controlling barn fire

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 Posted 10/30/2013 3:13:40 AM
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10/29/2013 12:00:00 AM
Fire crews spend nearly 9 hours controlling barn fire
Fire crews spend nearly 9 hours controlling barn fire
Post #235692
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 Posted 10/30/2013 5:49:33 AM
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[quote]. Tara Still with the department said that there is potential for chemicals to be in the water. Since they didn't have the ability to test the water there, the health department is erring on the side of caution. "We don't want it to go directly into a bottle of water"/quote]

?!?!

I am going to now propose the following Null Hypothesis:

The berm did not need to be built.

Erring on the side of caution is still an error.

The public interest - including professional reporters should investigate these claims immediately and demand an explanation for the emergency expense if any additional resources were spent.

I want to see and know more about the berm.  How expensive was it to complete and how large is it?  

This type of construction is very expensive and time consuming - What resources were made available to her for the construction project?

There are reasons for a direct emergency response, but I don't see any of those conditions present. 

The materials stored in the barn were wood shavings for animal bedding - Animal bedding can't have contaminants like formaldehyde present.

I guess the thing to worry about would be waste oil, oil from the grinders or kerosene or something else heavier stored on site.

Still though the presence of any residual charcoal from the fire may be enough attenuated absorbent (To be technically correct - adsorbent) to soak up a small spill.

Folks, portable laboratory equipment and simple environmental sleuthing should be the first line of defense, it is cheap.  This is the reason there are environmental scientists in the Health Department in the first place.

Of course there is time for testing if the proper equipment is owned by the department - equipment that is much cheaper to have then building emergency berms.

These public officials run simulations all the time of events much more serious than this.  It seems that as a result, they think they have to spend more taxpayer dollars being overly cautions, merely acting out what they so wish to show the world they are trained to do.

This is a financial hazard of the kind of unnecessary safety bureaucracy we have in our over sized government that appears to be nearly unconscious in it's execution of unnecessary actions.

Other factors that the public and media should investigate:

1) Were construction contractors called - What did they cost?

2) Has it ever been suggested that Kevin Martin should have a berm around his grinding operations?

3)  Was there excess funding for emergency actions that would not be available in the future that was spent?

I am going to now propose a Null Hypothesis that the berm did not need to be built.

Any reasonable scientist like a public health official should appreciate a Null Hypothesis 

Anyone care to prove me wrong scientifically and feel free to use EPA scoring models if you wish.

If not, let's vote all the folks who hire these people out of office because it  looks like we need a clean sweep in both City and County government around here to me.


Edited: 10/30/2013 5:54:00 AM by TomButler1
Post #235717
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 Posted 10/30/2013 6:06:09 AM
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So Tom Butler thinks its is wrong to err on the side of caution, rather than being exactly right or erring on the side of recklessness. I'll put my money on caution when it comes to "...waste oil, oil from the grinders or kerosene or something else heavier stored on site" being in our water.  

I can't wrap my head around taking the negligence of this property owner and converting it into something to be suspicious of the government about. 
Post #235723
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 Posted 10/30/2013 8:23:50 AM
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Knowing the business owner and his neighbors, my guess is the labor and equipment  used to build that containment probably didn't cost the tax payers one thin dine.
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 Posted 10/30/2013 10:04:29 AM
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So how do you know it did not cost anything to the tax payers JMS?

Did Kevin Martin, his employees and neighbors build the berm?

no the report is that the Health Department build the berm?  Does Kevin Martin and his employees and neighbors work for the Health Department?

What are you trying to say?

It seems to me that what you are saying is much like the like the Health Department official  - it isn't making much sense.

This would make for a great investigative report?  What were exactly the risks?  How were they determined?  

Jim Beam how do you know that there was even kerosene there?  


How much kerosene gets into drinking water - What is the exposure pathways?  How far away is the nearest well?

There appears to be very shoddy science and alarmist officials here at work to me..spending taxpayer dollars over a perceived thread that they can't even identify.

Edited: 11/1/2013 3:42:08 AM by TomButler1
Post #235763
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 Posted 10/30/2013 3:11:56 PM
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Anytime firefighters are involved with incendiary, potentially explosive industrial materials, they are risking their lives because a business decided the venture was worth that risk. This failed experiment must stop. 

THIS FAILED EXPERIMENT IS NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE SAFETY OF FIREFIGHTERS, OTHER PUBLIC WORKERS, AND THEIR FAMILIES. 

THIS IS NOT THE  THE 19th CENTURY... EXCEPT IN ELKHART COUNTY. 

Edited: 10/30/2013 3:17:11 PM by purdue22
Post #235787
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 Posted 10/31/2013 11:25:51 PM
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"There appears to be very shoddy science and alarmist officials here at work to me"

Oh? And your opinion is important to who?

What I see is a self-serving, Homo Erectus Blowgutious package of hot air.

That mirror you peer into, Tom?

Hate to break this to your already elevated ego, but you "ain't the fairest of them all".


Post #235962
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 Posted 10/31/2013 11:28:57 PM
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Hot Air + Tom Butler...a perfect match.
Gaseous emissions both...
Post #235963
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 Posted 11/1/2013 2:38:55 AM
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This is the place to have an opinion MaYoder - You are a troll if you continue to call people names for only expressing their opinion.

Why don't you say why you think that the berm should have been built?

Do you think it is an appropriate use of taxpayer dollars?

Instead of just insulting people - Be a productive citizen and engage in discussion on a community forum and don't insult people who do!

Purdue22:

What was the failed experiment anyways?

I don't understand why grinding wood in a barn is some sort of high technology experiment?

Yes it is dangerous - the proper equipment and monitoring is needed to keep from creating an explosive dust environment but if Kevin Martin did not have that equipment in place indoors - The State would have never permitted him to grind indoors and he would have never operated in the first place.  He's been grinding wood there for years - Surely the State would have shut him down long ago without a permit.

How do we get animal bedding if people don't grind wood and I don't think there is any way to remove all risks 100% from this type of operation and there are waste wood grinding operations all over the country and world.

How is that 19th century project?  Don't animals in the 20th and 21st century deserve to have animal bedding made by local businesses this winter?

There are just bizarre things that people are saying and doing here.

There is obviously much more to this story than the media is telling.


Edited: 11/1/2013 1:18:48 PM by TomButler1
Post #235967
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 Posted 11/1/2013 5:44:16 AM
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Tom is right, in this instance.  The materials that caught fire were relatively benign, the equivalent of a forest fire.  A berm is ludicrous.  A typical farming barn has fertilizer and other chemicals so I would expect a berm, but not this.  Someone over reacted.
I suspect it was because it was one of those dreaded, evil, wood grinding operations.

Edited: 11/1/2013 5:45:54 AM by Buford
Post #235988
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